Was Gilgamesh trying to reinvent himself as a man and recreate who he was personality wise to try and cope with the loss of Enkidu on his quest for immortality?
If Enkidu is part of Gilgamesh's rebirth then its saying Gilgamesh would be born as a new person. What would change about his character and the values he has?
I like Nate's question. I believe that it changes people for the better or the worse it depends on the person. There are people that aren't afraid of death and they know it is going to happen so there is no point in fearing it.
@TannerT I feel that his quest is his way of coping. Others seem to feel it was a selfish quest but in short, yes he had just lost his best friend and so I believe he was coping.
@zach: I think we can be "reborn". I think we can have experiences that shape us and change things about us to make us reborn in the sense of values and things like that
@Tom Gilgamesh would try and become more rational and less emotional to try and adjust to the loss of Enkidu and would try and think a little before he acts which would change him into a more wise person. Wisdom comes with age and if Gilgamesh ages on his journey for youth he learns things about himself to make him more understanding.
@Connor: I believe that Gilgamesh reinvented himself while he was on his quests with Enkidu. Because the pre and post-Enkidu Gilgamesh are very different people
@connor: what do you mean that Gilgamesh would have lived on through Enkidu? Like if Enkidu didn't die then Gilgamesh would just coast on Enkidu's accomplishments?
@Zach I think that a person can be reborn, but not literally like a phoenix, more figuratively as in you become more aware of your surroundings and the knowledge that you have becomes more accessible and thus you are reborn in a wealth of knowledge rather than reborn as a new person.
@Tom on Connor's comment I think Connor is saying that Enkidu would have been capable and willing to fill Gilgamesh's shoes when Gilgamesh died and Enkidu would have made sure that Gilgamesh would have been remembered similar to how Gilgamesh made sure Enkidu was remembered by having a statue built in remembrance to him. So its more that Enkidu would insure that Gilgamesh was always remembered for the hero he was.
So we have this idea of being reborn but in Mesopotamian society they had a strong belief in the after life so then what were people trying to reach the afterlife or did they strive to be reborn?
Zach I agree but I still think he wanted to avoid death as much as possible. Throughout almost the whole story he wanted to become full god and I think that when he saw Enkidu die he had the realization that death is a real thing that he doesn't want to happen.
Katy I agree death is a scary thing but there are people who embrace death when they know they only have a certain amount of time left to live. I don't blame him at all for what he did. I was not trying to say that everyone should not fear death. I was saying that some people do not fear death and those who don't, don't see a point in fearing it.
@Tom: The idea of being reborn isn't so much a religious thing, its more about his experiences, not attaining "reborn"-ness. You can just be reborn through our learning experiences, like we said earlier
@Tom I think that if a person had the means to find life eternal, they would do there best to achieve it and thus be reborn, but if a person could make that possible then a strong belief in the after life could be beneficial for that person because they believe that they are at least going somewhere and not just going into the earth to be forgotten.
@Katy: I don't think it takes something drastic like death in order to be reborn. I think that it can be any significant thing that impacts your life. I feel like anything that changes your character or makes you reevaluate your morals or values then that experience is what makes you "reborn"
Tom I was commenting on a thought that said "if Gilgamesh had dies first, do you think Enkidu would have killed himself." I just think that Enkidu was less afraid of death than Gilgamesh was in the first place. Enkidu was not born and was not alive as long so he didn't have a real reason to fear death.
@Katy: I don't think you are more brave if you don't fear death. I think that you don't fear death that you are living your life to the fullest. If your not afraid of death then you aren't afraid to put your self out there and take risks. But I think it takes an experience similar to one that makes you "reborn" in order to not be afraid of death.
What do you think it takes to no longer fear death?
@Katy I don't think that a person who fears death is any less courageous than a person who does not. Death frightens some and doesnt matter at all to others and the correlation between the two is hard to make because Enkidu Didn't fear death but was in my opinion more courageous that Gilgamesh for actually taking on the challenges head on, But that's not to say that Gilgamesh was a coward, he actually killed Humbaba and the bull of heaven, and showed his courage by taking the journey for immortality alone.
@Tom: I think the loss of a loved one would really help you not fear death. Its like Archer Season 3 Episode 1... his fiancee is killed and now he is away and so he goes to live life to the fullest in the South Pacific
@Zach In a sense yes, because maybe you do not age physically, but you age mentally and if wisdom comes with age then you become more wise the longer you are around because you have more experiences and learn more as you age mentally.
Katy I was actually talking about this topic over the weekend and one of my friends says that he does not fear death. We asked him what he did different, he said that he is not afraid to do a lot of things that may lead to death. A lot people don't like heights, neither does he but he does not let his fear of heights/falling and dying control his actions.
@Tom: I feel that we are born with it. It is an innate and primal fear. It really is something ingrained in any animal, the fear of death and the promise of survival.
Tom I feel like we are born without a fear of death and we are raised to fear it. We are born and we know nothing of death. As we are raised, religion tries to tell us that death is okay which leads us to asking about death. And from the moment we are exposed to death(of a loved one for example)we begin to see death every wear and begin to fear the unknown.
@Tom I think that a fear of death comes with understanding. when you are young you don't understand everything that is going on around you and thus have a lot of fears because humans fear the unknown. and death is an unknown variable in all of our lives, so really, we are born with fear of death, but may come not to fear it as we age and come to understand more of life and make less and less variables unknown.
@Katy: Has losing that person made you put yourself out there more? Has it made you live with out regrets? How has it changed you? I guess is the real question backing this.
@Katy: I was thinking along the lines of if you lose someone close to you you become more aware of death and how fragile life is. So it may not change your fear or death but you become more aware
Tom I belive we are all born with the fear of death, I think some people say they are not afrade of death but really deap down they are worried like what will happen after. Gilgamesh was a hero but he was scared to die
If we are raised to fear death is it society that gives us our fear or do we fear death because we hear that someone dies and then someone close to us gets so sad and we don't want to feel responsible for giving them that sadness and pain?
@Zach I was speaking of death more as an unknown variable in the fact that humans have yet to truly prove what happens after you die, do we just rot in the earth and fertilize or do we go to a stage of after life. so yes death is a guarantee but its an unknown variable to us because we don't understand what happens when our life comes to an end.
Tom I have in some ways put myself out more but in other ways I have taken a step back. I try to live my life with out regrets but then there is the fear of death that does hold me back.
@TannerT: Yes, I defiantly believe that. Its like the movie Bucket List. They are older so they know death is around the corner and so they decide to have the time of their life. And I know that when I am old, I won't have anything to fear, I will have lived life and am ready to go.
That's kind of a morbid thought but that's my perspective
@Tom What kind of legacy are we trying to leave, a legacy among our family or a legacy that will be told around the world? because the difference between them could change what is done drastically.
Tom I think we do fear death less if we strongly believe in what happens after because if you do believe in an afterlife, you might think that it is going to be even better than this.
Tanner I believe that being aware of life and death leads to how someone acts. If someone lives there whole life thinking death is lurking around every corner, then they will constantly be hiding. An example I can think of is like Howie from the Benchwarmers. He is afraid of everything trying to kill him so he sits in a closet all day.
@ Connor I agree with that statement, I think people who do believe in some sort of after life to fear death less, even though the supposed afterlife back then was a good place, however now it its seem like heaven is a glorious any many people are at peace when they die.
@ Katy No I do not believe Enkidu would have killed himself, he was a different then gilgamesh. He would have been deeply sad, but I think he stronger mentally so he would have handled it differently.
@ Zack Ault I do think we have the oppurtuity to be reborn, we dont even have to die, I think of someone want to really change and become a better person they can do that and be that different person and live that new life.
@ Connor A question I if we are raised to fear death, does that change in different cultures and different parts of the world.
Was Gilgamesh trying to reinvent himself as a man and recreate who he was personality wise to try and cope with the loss of Enkidu on his quest for immortality?
ReplyDeleteIf Enkidu is part of Gilgamesh's rebirth then its saying Gilgamesh would be born as a new person. What would change about his character and the values he has?
ReplyDeleteHope's idea about rebirth is intriguing. I had never really looked at it in that way. So would our lives be similar? Are we ever "reborn"?
ReplyDeleteI like Nate's question. I believe that it changes people for the better or the worse it depends on the person. There are people that aren't afraid of death and they know it is going to happen so there is no point in fearing it.
ReplyDeleteIf Gilgamesh had died first do you think Enkidu would have would have killed himself?
ReplyDelete@TannerT I feel that his quest is his way of coping. Others seem to feel it was a selfish quest but in short, yes he had just lost his best friend and so I believe he was coping.
ReplyDeleteTanner
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh is more just trying to avoid death and become a full god than reinvent himself as a man.
@zach: I think we can be "reborn". I think we can have experiences that shape us and change things about us to make us reborn in the sense of values and things like that
ReplyDelete@Tom
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh would try and become more rational and less emotional to try and adjust to the loss of Enkidu and would try and think a little before he acts which would change him into a more wise person. Wisdom comes with age and if Gilgamesh ages on his journey for youth he learns things about himself to make him more understanding.
Katy
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Enkidu would have killed himself but Gilgamesh would have lived on through Enkidu.
Connor death is a scary thing, if you had watched your best friend wouldnt you be scared? I dont blame him
ReplyDelete@Connor: I believe that Gilgamesh reinvented himself while he was on his quests with Enkidu. Because the pre and post-Enkidu Gilgamesh are very different people
ReplyDelete@connor: what do you mean that Gilgamesh would have lived on through Enkidu? Like if Enkidu didn't die then Gilgamesh would just coast on Enkidu's accomplishments?
ReplyDelete@Zach
ReplyDeleteI think that a person can be reborn, but not literally like a phoenix, more figuratively as in you become more aware of your surroundings and the knowledge that you have becomes more accessible and thus you are reborn in a wealth of knowledge rather than reborn as a new person.
@TannerT : I defiantly agree... that is a great point
ReplyDelete@Tom on Connor's comment
ReplyDeleteI think Connor is saying that Enkidu would have been capable and willing to fill Gilgamesh's shoes when Gilgamesh died and Enkidu would have made sure that Gilgamesh would have been remembered similar to how Gilgamesh made sure Enkidu was remembered by having a statue built in remembrance to him. So its more that Enkidu would insure that Gilgamesh was always remembered for the hero he was.
So we have this idea of being reborn but in Mesopotamian society they had a strong belief in the after life so then what were people trying to reach the afterlife or did they strive to be reborn?
ReplyDeleteDoes it take something horrible or drestic like a death for someone to be reborn?
ReplyDeleteZach
ReplyDeleteI agree but I still think he wanted to avoid death as much as possible. Throughout almost the whole story he wanted to become full god and I think that when he saw Enkidu die he had the realization that death is a real thing that he doesn't want to happen.
Katy
I agree death is a scary thing but there are people who embrace death when they know they only have a certain amount of time left to live. I don't blame him at all for what he did. I was not trying to say that everyone should not fear death. I was saying that some people do not fear death and those who don't, don't see a point in fearing it.
@Tom: The idea of being reborn isn't so much a religious thing, its more about his experiences, not attaining "reborn"-ness. You can just be reborn through our learning experiences, like we said earlier
ReplyDelete@Tom
ReplyDeleteI think that if a person had the means to find life eternal, they would do there best to achieve it and thus be reborn, but if a person could make that possible then a strong belief in the after life could be beneficial for that person because they believe that they are at least going somewhere and not just going into the earth to be forgotten.
Connor so if someone does not fear death then are they braver?
ReplyDelete@Katy: I don't think it takes something drastic like death in order to be reborn. I think that it can be any significant thing that impacts your life. I feel like anything that changes your character or makes you reevaluate your morals or values then that experience is what makes you "reborn"
ReplyDeleteTom
ReplyDeleteI was commenting on a thought that said "if Gilgamesh had dies first, do you think Enkidu would have killed himself." I just think that Enkidu was less afraid of death than Gilgamesh was in the first place. Enkidu was not born and was not alive as long so he didn't have a real reason to fear death.
@TannerT: so you are saying that attaining immortality is being reborn?
ReplyDeleteKaty
ReplyDeleteI would not say they are braver that just have different thoughts about life.
@Katy: I don't think you are more brave if you don't fear death. I think that you don't fear death that you are living your life to the fullest. If your not afraid of death then you aren't afraid to put your self out there and take risks. But I think it takes an experience similar to one that makes you "reborn" in order to not be afraid of death.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think it takes to no longer fear death?
Connor How are there thoughts about life different?
ReplyDelete@Katy
ReplyDeleteI don't think that a person who fears death is any less courageous than a person who does not. Death frightens some and doesnt matter at all to others and the correlation between the two is hard to make because Enkidu Didn't fear death but was in my opinion more courageous that Gilgamesh for actually taking on the challenges head on, But that's not to say that Gilgamesh was a coward, he actually killed Humbaba and the bull of heaven, and showed his courage by taking the journey for immortality alone.
@Tom: I think the loss of a loved one would really help you not fear death. Its like Archer Season 3 Episode 1... his fiancee is killed and now he is away and so he goes to live life to the fullest in the South Pacific
ReplyDelete@Zach
ReplyDeleteIn a sense yes, because maybe you do not age physically, but you age mentally and if wisdom comes with age then you become more wise the longer you are around because you have more experiences and learn more as you age mentally.
Katy
ReplyDeleteI was actually talking about this topic over the weekend and one of my friends says that he does not fear death. We asked him what he did different, he said that he is not afraid to do a lot of things that may lead to death. A lot people don't like heights, neither does he but he does not let his fear of heights/falling and dying control his actions.
@TannerT: ok that makes sense, that is actually a really good perspective.
ReplyDeleteAre we born with a fear of death or are we raised to fear death?
ReplyDeleteZach I really dissagre with you I have lost someone close and it has most deffanitly not made me fear death less, it has mad me fear death more.
ReplyDelete@Tom: I feel that we are born with it. It is an innate and primal fear. It really is something ingrained in any animal, the fear of death and the promise of survival.
ReplyDeleteTom
ReplyDeleteI feel like we are born without a fear of death and we are raised to fear it. We are born and we know nothing of death. As we are raised, religion tries to tell us that death is okay which leads us to asking about death. And from the moment we are exposed to death(of a loved one for example)we begin to see death every wear and begin to fear the unknown.
@Tom
ReplyDeleteI think that a fear of death comes with understanding. when you are young you don't understand everything that is going on around you and thus have a lot of fears because humans fear the unknown. and death is an unknown variable in all of our lives, so really, we are born with fear of death, but may come not to fear it as we age and come to understand more of life and make less and less variables unknown.
@Katy: Has losing that person made you put yourself out there more? Has it made you live with out regrets? How has it changed you? I guess is the real question backing this.
ReplyDelete@Katy: I was thinking along the lines of if you lose someone close to you you become more aware of death and how fragile life is. So it may not change your fear or death but you become more aware
ReplyDeleteTom I belive we are all born with the fear of death, I think some people say they are not afrade of death but really deap down they are worried like what will happen after. Gilgamesh was a hero but he was scared to die
ReplyDeleteIf we are raised to fear death is it society that gives us our fear or do we fear death because we hear that someone dies and then someone close to us gets so sad and we don't want to feel responsible for giving them that sadness and pain?
ReplyDelete@TannerT: Death isn't really an unknown variable... its a guarentee
ReplyDelete@Zach
ReplyDeleteI like that point of awareness, which leads me to ask, does awareness of life and death fuel what a person does with there life?
Do you think we fear death less if we believe strongly what happens after?
ReplyDelete@Zach
ReplyDeleteI was speaking of death more as an unknown variable in the fact that humans have yet to truly prove what happens after you die, do we just rot in the earth and fertilize or do we go to a stage of after life. so yes death is a guarantee but its an unknown variable to us because we don't understand what happens when our life comes to an end.
Zach
ReplyDeleteI would disagree to an extent. Until we are exposed to death it is unknown, but once we are exposed to it, it is a guarantee.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTom I have in some ways put myself out more but in other ways I have taken a step back. I try to live my life with out regrets but then there is the fear of death that does hold me back.
ReplyDeleteHow do you want to leave a legacy? What impact on others do we have to have in order to leave one?
ReplyDelete@TannerT: Yes, I defiantly believe that. Its like the movie Bucket List. They are older so they know death is around the corner and so they decide to have the time of their life. And I know that when I am old, I won't have anything to fear, I will have lived life and am ready to go.
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of a morbid thought but that's my perspective
@Tom
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of legacy are we trying to leave, a legacy among our family or a legacy that will be told around the world? because the difference between them could change what is done drastically.
Tom
ReplyDeleteI think we do fear death less if we strongly believe in what happens after because if you do believe in an afterlife, you might think that it is going to be even better than this.
Tanner
I believe that being aware of life and death leads to how someone acts. If someone lives there whole life thinking death is lurking around every corner, then they will constantly be hiding. An example I can think of is like Howie from the Benchwarmers. He is afraid of everything trying to kill him so he sits in a closet all day.
How do you know you wont have anything to fear zach? things could be reallllllllly differnt by then.
ReplyDelete@Tanner: Just a legacy in general. If you could leave a legacy in any sense what would you do?
ReplyDelete@TannerT: Ok that makes a lot more sense and I understand where your coming from.
ReplyDelete@Connor: Even when we don't understand death, we are still going to die so I feel that it is a guarantee even though we can't comprehend it
All Done.
ReplyDelete@Katy: I will be 85 and I will go to sleep every night and I may not wake up in the morning... My way of embracing that would be to not fear death
ReplyDelete@ Connor I agree with that statement, I think people who do believe in some sort of after life to fear death less, even though the supposed afterlife back then was a good place, however now it its seem like heaven is a glorious any many people are at peace when they die.
ReplyDelete@ Katy No I do not believe Enkidu would have killed himself, he was a different then gilgamesh. He would have been deeply sad, but I think he stronger mentally so he would have handled it differently.
@ Zack Ault I do think we have the oppurtuity to be reborn, we dont even have to die, I think of someone want to really change and become a better person they can do that and be that different person and live that new life.
@ Connor A question I if we are raised to fear death, does that change in different cultures and different parts of the world.